The “punk on bus” is the real hero of the 1986 movie “Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.”
The Muni-riding rebel gives William Shatner the middle finger — did any actor in the “Trek” universe deserve it more? — on the the Golden Gate Bridge. He shares his art with his fellow passengers. (It turns out the punk wrote that “I Hate You” song playing on the boom box.) And he created, with apologies to the “Bullitt” car chase, the most purely crowd-pleasing moment in San Francisco movie history.
After Chronicle readers brought many questions for Thatcher during the last Total SF movie night, we tracked down the writer/director/producer/puppeteer for answers about the scene and the character from the hit movie, where the “Trek” original cast time-travels to 1980s San Francisco. He exceeded expectations.
Thatcher offered mohawk grooming tips, charming memories of “Star Trek IV” actor/director Leonard Nimoy, residuals check details and an entire back story for the punk — who was apparently just trying to do his laundry.
While this interview is punk on bus-centric, listen to the Total SF podcast for our entire conversation, which includes stories from Thatcher’s incredible career, making creatures for “Return of the Jedi” as a teen and writing and directing several “Muppets” movies.
(Some questions were edited for clarity.)
Q: Do you know how the punk ended up in the original “Star Trek IV” script?
A: Leonard (Nimoy) said, “The heart of Star Trek is the characters. It’s not even the science fiction concepts. It’s these characters.” They all got their little moments in San Francisco. We got to poke fun at our society. And that’s where the punk came in.
Q: You were already the associate producer for “Star Trek IV,” working closely with Nimoy. Did you have to try out for the role?
A: I went to Leonard and said, “I want to play the punk.” I did a sketch of what I would look like. … He said, “Huh, let me think about it.”
I worked with him side-by-side every day, so I figured I’m not going to bring it up, I’m not going to harass him. About a week later we met in his office at the end of the day, like we often did. He’d have a gin and tonic and we’d just sit back and talk about life, and the project and whatever was going on. … I was walking out of his office and he said, “One more thing. You can do it.”
And I knew exactly what he meant. I said, “Seriously? You’re not going to regret this! I’m going to be so punk!”
Q: How did you prepare for the role?
A: I put together the outfit and got my hair cut and dyed, so it could be a mohawk. I had longish hair, (the length of) The Dude in “The Big Lebowski.” I had enough so that if you Aqua Net-ed it up, it would be six or eight inches. I basically had to cut the sides, bleach my hair twice to get it almost white and then color it bright orange.
I walked outside and “D” — (actor) DeForest Kelley, but everyone just called him “D” — was going into the trailer to do his makeup test. … And he looked me up and down, because I looked ridiculous; I had mascara, a dog collar, and this whole outfit. He looked me up and down (and) he says, “Nice shoes!” It was the only thing I was wearing that wasn’t punk.
Q: So you’re filming in an actual Muni bus. I could tell — there’s no production designer alive who could get the graffiti right or get everything right.
A: Exactly. We just rented the bus for three days to trick it out and pull out seats so we could put the camera equipment in there.
We shot it actually driving on the Golden Gate Bridge, there was no green screen, and I think we went up and down three or four times before I had to get off and get back in street clothes, because they had to put the camera basically where I was sitting. After (Spock) knocked me out, they went back to that two-shot (of Spock and Kirk talking about profanity in the 20th Century).
Q: Was there an actual Muni driver behind the wheel?
A: I don’t know. I think for insurance purposes we had to have a transportation guy do it, but I’m not sure. You’d have ask (producer) Ralph Winter. “Did we hire a Muni driver?” There’s your deep cut interview.
Q: How many takes did the scene require? Was there a lot of improv with the punk?
A: We only did about three takes. The first one was blown because I was wearing a very cheap black leather jacket, and cheap black leather is almost like heavy cardboard. So when (Nimoy) gave me the pinch I didn’t feel it. The gag only works if I’m not looking at him, so that’s why I was rocking out and looking left and right like a bobblehead before he pinched me. ...
The first time I could only see him peripherally and couldn’t tell if he was pinching my neck or not. I tried to look and just kind of blew the take. So we laughed and I said, “You’ve really got to bear down so I know you’re giving me the neck pinch.” I think we got it on the second or third take.
Q: I was 15 or 16 when “Star Trek IV” came out. Right around the age when I’m getting into Dead Kennedys .... I remember listening to (punk) albums waiting for this punk song in the movie to show up.
A: I wrote and sang it!
We shot the scene to no music at all. I’m just bopping to a beat in my head. …
When it came time to put music in, the Paramount music department said we’ve got a deal with whatever Paramount Records was. “We have Duran Duran or some New Wave.” And I told Leonard, “That’s not punk. You want to have this music make your ears hurt.” I said, “I know what this music is. Dead Kennedys, The Ramones, Black Flag, T.S.O.L.” That was the stuff I grew up listening to.
Paramount said, “Well, we’re not going to make a deal with those guys. We’re not going to pay them for the rights to a song.” So I said to Leonard, “I’ll write you a song. Because it’s not hard. If you know three licks on a guitar you can write a Ramones song.”
Q: Did you have a specific band or punk rocker in mind when you created this character?
A: The Dickies, the Toy Dolls and, with the accent, The Sex Pistols. … The Cold War was still on. We thought Russia was going to nuke us any day. I grew up with that. The duck and cover days. I thought, “Well, as an angry punk, what am I angry about?” And it was that. (Thatcher starts reciting lyrics.) “The things we’ve done and said, we’d be better off dead ...”
The punks, the ones that I knew, were very political. There were esthetic punks who just wanted to look cool and piss off their parents. But I had a back story for this guy and what his truths were. It’s fun and 50% of it was after the fact before the movie came out, if people ask me. No one ever has.
Q: Great, that’s my next question. Why is this punk going to Sausalito? Does he have a job there?
A: Yeah, so the whole story is he’s going to Sausalito to his parents’ house to do his laundry. Because he’s basically a kid from a Marin County upper middle class family. So in my mind, having lived in San Francisco and hung out in the city with punks, he was going home to get a meal and do his laundry. And then he was going to go back and crash with three other guys in some place South of Market and be an angry punk and go to clubs.
But it wasn’t a Saturday. He was probably going on a Monday or Tuesday when the clubs weren’t really working. He was angry about all the things he grew up with, but was sort of the shy kid until his junior year in high school.
He just didn’t have an outlet. Punk was his outlet. In my mind that wasn’t his song. … I mentioned The Toy Dolls and The Ramones and the Dickies too. They had a sense of humor about their anarchist manifestos.
Q: Black Flag too. And the Avengers. I’m a big Avengers fan.
A: It was smart anarchy. It wasn’t just “screw you guys, you’re jerks.” So I put in lyrics like “I eschew you!” in there. And also, I couldn’t say the F-word. They said, “Screw you is fine.” And what rhymes with screw?
… So that’s how the song came about. Mark Mangini, who was our sound designer, played the guitar. He knew punk. And two of the other sound editors were musicians. … We recorded it on a crappy mic in the hallway of the sound studio where they were doing all the post-production sound. So it sounded like a garage band punk recording.
Q: What did Nimoy think of the song? Did you play it for him?
A: Oh yeah. I remember we recorded it on either a Friday or Saturday morning. I remember he came in on a Saturday to listen to a bunch of sound stuff. Mainly the whale noises. He was very concerned what the alien probe noises sounded like.
I said, “Hey we’ve got a version of this song, and I wrote it so it would track out so ‘Screw you!’ would be right about the time I flipped him off.”
He came in and listened to it. I remember he was listening and kind of frowning, as you would. He took the headphones off and looked at me and said, “It’s awful.” And he goes, “So it’s perfect!” He had that dry smile. Such a great sense of humor.
Q: Was the song ever on a soundtrack? Do you get a 12-cent residuals check at any point?
A: I get it from the movie. What’s funny is if you’re a singer and in SAG, you get a residual. They’re literally like 8-cent residuals. … I didn’t get anything for the on-camera appearance, because I have no lines, and they technically called me a “featured extra.” But I get it for the song.
Q: “Star Trek IV” holds up so well. It’s a fantastic movie for the pandemic. Everyone can watch it and has a great message. Nothing is problematic.
A: It wasn’t just the one with the whales. It was the one that people who didn’t like “Star Trek” watched. … How many “Star Trek” movies or TV episodes end with the crew laughing in the ocean splashing each other. None? It was such a unicorn in that way.
It’s one of my favorite jobs. Obviously. I’m so enthusiastic about it.
Peter Hartlaub is The San Francisco Chronicle’s culture critic. Email: phartlaub@sfchronicle.com Twitter: @PeterHartlaub
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