Iliza Shelsinger can laugh about it now. But the true-life relationship that inspired her new Netflix movie Good On Paper is still appalling to anyone who hears it for the first time.
In the movie, debuting Wednesday, Shlesinger plays a trusting, successful woman who is deceived and manipulated into romance by a man (played by Ryan Hansen) who builds himself up on a tower of increasingly elaborate lies. By the time she figures out he's not at all who he says he is, he's already woven himself into every part of her life. If it weren't as ridiculous as it is infuriating, it would play like a horror story; as it is, Shlesinger calls the film a "rom-con" rather than a rom-com.
Shlesinger also wrote the movie, basing it on someone she dated several years ago. He lied about his job, where he went to college, where he lived, and played on her sympathy with tales of illness and personal hardship that all turned out to be bogus. After the truth emerged and the relationship imploded, the stand-up star was reeling, questioning not only her own judgment but the truthfulness of everyone around her.
She's over it now. Or, at least, she's better. She got married. She's making the transition from stand-up to film acting, as she always hoped. But she still can't believe what this pathological liar made her believe.
Ryan Hansen and Iliza Shlesinger's “meet cute” from the Netflix film Good On Paper.
NETFLIXVanity Fair: In Good On Paper, it seems pretty clear you're playing a variation of yourself. How closely do you align with the character that you wrote?
Iliza Shlesinger: I align extremely closely. She's basically me. I would say Andrea is a little bit tougher and a little bit, I don't know, is blunter is a word? This girl isn't a delicate flower. She has paid her way through life, built a career and works hard. She can be a little rude at times, but the similarities are there because this was a real story that happened. And the only way I know how to tell things is honestly, as a comic. So I just translated that to paper.
I'm guessing you don't want to identify the man who inspired this movie by name, right?
I do not. I do not for legal reasons. The beauty of this movie is that it is accurate. I'd say two thirds of that movie are true. And every single lie that [the character] Dennis Kelly tells in this movie, those are lies that I took from memory that were told to me. All of those lies happened.
So let's go back to 2015, when you met this man. Where were you in your life?
I met him when I was 30. I was coming home from Thanksgiving; I got on the plane, and there was a guy sitting next to me who was my age. So we just started talking. I clocked him immediately as very East Coast preppy. You don't see a lot of like, Brooks Brothers-types of guys in L.A. He was witty and charming and he was smart.
What did you talk about?
“Where'd you go to school?” He said, I went to Yale and I said, “oh, my cousin, went there.” And he told me he was a hedge funder, which as a comic, I'm just like, “I think I know what that is...” We really enjoyed each other on the flight, and I think I had the guy I was dating picking me up. And [this new guy] told me he had a girlfriend. So it seemed safe to communicate, knowing we were both with someone.
Did he recognize you, the way the character in the movie recognizes her from her stand-up act?
I can't remember if he recognized me or not, but I put that in. It was just a creative decision I made for the movie. But to this day, I don't know if he knew who I was. I wasn't that famous at the time. I did have Netflix specials. Maybe he looked me up, maybe when I went to the bathroom. I don’t know. But I invited him to a show just saying, you know, if you and your girlfriend ever want tickets, come on out. I literally invite everyone to The Comedy Store. It's one of the perks of knowing a comic. You never need to pay for tickets.
Did you look up who he was?
I remember we got off the plane, and at the time Twitter was something that hadn't turned into a total island of misfit toys, like, an evil broken-doll factory. But I remember looking up his Twitter handle. He gave it to me and it had a Yale reference in it. What's even stranger is because he didn't go to Yale, I'm now like, is that a handle that he kept around for when he lied to women? Was that something he created on the plane when I wasn't looking? I don't know, but it checked out. I didn't think twice about it. And we became friends.
An interesting thing in the movie is that your character is not attracted to him. Ryan Hansen is a pretty attractive guy in real life, but director Kimmy Gatewood makes him a lot more oily and unctuous. In real life, was this a guy you would've been attracted to?
No! So I’m glad you picked up on that, and I'm glad you used the word unctuous, because I think that that's something we can apply to him now that we know the story. At the time he only struck me as elegant and witty and funny and charming—but I was not physically attracted to him at all. And I even remember thinking after we were friends, like, it's such a shame because he's a great guy.
Sounds like that’s another commentary on our culture’s standards.
Only in our society do we tell women to give a guy you're not chemically attracted to a chance. We never say to men, “Look, I know she's an armadillo, but she's really funny! So maybe you'll become attracted to her.” But I wasn't attracted to him.
But he kept trying?
None of it was wooing me. I still really liked his personality, but I was just not attracted to this person. And I have this scene in the movie deliberately because women so get vilified: “Oh, you've led him on.” I was perhaps too painfully honest with him. I was like, “Look, I'm not there. I love you for all these reasons, but I can't be your girlfriend.” I was trying to be as kind with the words as possible, and I said, you know, if this relationship makes you uncomfortable, I understand if you don't want to hang out with me.
Iliza Shlesinger, Margaret Cho, and Ryan Hansen in Good On Paper.
Alex LombardiHow did it turn into a romantic relationship, and when did you start suspecting something was off?
In terms of cracks beginning to show… he would always buy things for people. Not for me. He'd always pay for rounds. He'd always buy drinks for people. It was almost like, if I can posture like this, then nobody will question me. I'm always the guy buying the drinks.
Since he didn’t really have a hedge fund job, was he just racking up debt? Do you have any idea? Just maxing out credit cards?
Yes, he was.
What was it that led you to finally say, okay, actually I will date you?
I think this is a pressure we put on women. It's like you almost will yourself into liking them. And I do believe men are visual creatures, and women are cerebral creatures. So that's why a girl is like, “Oh, he's so funny. And I'm attracted to him, even if he's a total warthog.” You never see it the other way. So, there was pressure. Toward the end of the friendship, before we started dating, you go out, maybe you get drunk, and you kiss. I remember thinking, “Okay, I can kiss you when I'm drunk, but I need to be able to kiss you when I'm sober!” Like, trying to get there.
And you were still dating other people at this time?
I remember—and this is in the movie for a very specific reason—I was honest about the fact that I would go on dates and that I had a type of guy that I liked. I was out with a friend/romantic friend, and he was very GI Joe, All-American. Like, a big guy, kind of like Tyler Cameron is in the movie, which is why we picked him. [Cameron plays a guy Shlesinger’s character goes on a date with.] He ordered a drink and I said, let me take a picture of your arm in front of the drink because his arm was so huge. So I just took a picture, and I put it on my Instagram with some dumb caption. Ten minutes later, I got a phone call from Dennis.
He saw the picture?
He said, “I'm so sorry to bother you…” He was so upset. And he let me know that his mom had been diagnosed with cancer. And he didn't know who else to call.
Uh-huh.
Looking back on this moment, which to me was the linchpin of all of it, I believe he saw that Instagram post, saw the person I was out with, and he thought I've got to kick this up a notch. That set into motion my heart opening up to this person. I said, like, let's try this. Something switched in me.
But he was tricking you, right?
I even met the mother.
Was it his real mother?
I think so. Just because they both had a weak chin. It's easy to say, why didn't you ask her, but it's so indelicate to say to someone like, “Hey, how's your cancer?” So I didn't say anything. He had described to me that the cancer was pretty advanced. So I'm thinking this woman's not going to be here for long. I just want to meet her and be nice, and show her that her son is with someone who's going to be sweet to him.
Ryan Hansen and Iliza Shlesinger.
NETFLIXWhen did you start to realize he wasn’t who he said he was?
We dated for about three months and little things started to happen. I remember him volunteering, and saying I'd like to pay for your birthday party. He was my boyfriend and it's not uncommon to have a boyfriend pay for a dinner for your friends or something. I just want to stress this wasn't like he was buying me a Maserati. We went to the bar, we had the birthday, and at the end of the night, he was sitting on the fire escape in the back of the bar with his head in his hands, because we owed the bar a thousand dollars or whatever. He was unable to pay it. I remember thinking like, “You offered this, why are you being so weird?”
Finding out he didn’t really go to Yale was the key to learning that nothing about his life was what he said it was. So how did that happen?
My mom called the Yale registrar's office.
Your mom called Yale? Margaret Cho's character does that in the movie.
The character Margaret Cho plays is an amalgamation of three women: my best friend, my mother, and another friend. I don't remember what set her off or what made her think something was up. But once we started dating, she dug a little deeper and called the Yale registrar's office and they said, “We have no record of a Dennis Kelly having attended here since 1985."
Did you confront him?
I remember asking him, “Where's your Yale diploma?,” thinking they made a mistake. Maybe they spelled something wrong. I put his answer in the movie because I thought it was a great line. He said, “I'm not a dentist. I don't have my diploma hanging on the wall.” Even I was just like, yeah, I guess my college degree is in a frame in the closet. At 30, to have your undergrad degree hanging up, like, who cares?
Did other things start to seem off?
I remember he had said that he purchased a house in Beverly Hills and it was under construction. I wanted to see it. So we drove there and it was a split level apartment in the middle of Hollywood. I'm like, this is not a street that connects to Beverly Hills. We rang the doorbell and two women opened the door.
Again, just like in the movie…
This happened. I could not make this up. At first, we were like, “Wrong house!” Or, does he have a secret family? And the girl was like, “Oh, you're Iliza!” She was like, “We didn't believe that Dennis was actually dating you.”
What did you do then?
I called him. I'm like, “Who are these women? What is this?” And his answer was so perfect. He was a little weird and didn't want to talk about it, then he revealed, “I do have a house. My mother is living there now because she wants her own space. She's being treated for cancer at UCLA. And I want to give her her her space. I keep my stuff at my friend’s. I pay rent for it, so I'm helping her out and I spend most nights with you. So I don't ever go to my house.” When you invoke the cancer card, I'm thinking like, oh my God, I don't want to bother this woman in her home, in her like final weeks on this planet.
You kept doubting yourself instead of him.
It sounds insane. But when you love someone, and when you've known someone for a year and they're telling you their mom has cancer, you're just trying to show some deference, I guess. Then was just one thing after another. The house thing wasn't adding up. The Yale thing wasn't adding up.
What finally convinced you?
I can't remember all the pieces, but I remember I was flying home from playing the Tempe improv and had just had enough. I can't remember what the exact linchpin was, but I texted him and I said, I know you didn't go to Yale. And I know you're a liar. And he just wrote back: “You're right. I've been lying to you every day. Since the day I met you.” Like, he just dropped all of it.
Did he say why?
He said, “I love you. And I didn't know I would love you when I met you. And I've lived in fear every day because I didn't know what to do.”
Did you ever see him again?
We met for drinks. I remember storming out of the bar. I remember thinking like, “Well, first of all, we're definitely over.” I reached out to the roommates who I'd met that one time, because I said, I'd love to get more information, I'd love to just get some closure. I think he had moved out at that point, but I went over and a group of them were there. They start saying, you know, “We met him on Craigslist, and we've only known him for, like, a year or two. He's in debt for like $600,000. He said that you've been dating for a year.” Which means that he said we'd been dating since the day I met him on the plane—which is so gross. And then I remember saying, “I guess I just feel bad for him.”
Why?
Because of what he's going through when his mom had cancer. That's when the friend said, “What are you talking about? His mom doesn't have cancer.” And I went home. It was like blunt force trauma to the soul.
And that was it?
I went home and I passed out for like 15 hours because how do you process that? I never talked to him again.
Director Kimmy Gatewood and Iliza Shlesinger behind the scenes of Good On Paper.
Alex LombardiDid he ever try to contact you?
I went to a wedding a couple months later, and I was with a bunch of high school friends and there was a nude beach. So I took a picture with my hands in the air, and then I had two friends shake hands in front of my boobs, so you couldn't see anything. These are people I've known my whole life. Like it's whatever. I put it on Instagram because I was, you know, in my early 30s, I'm single, and who cares? And I remember he sent me an email, chastising me for posting such a picture.
Uh, what?
It just shows you the level of narcissism. A lot of women would just walk away. I unleashed on him. I was just like, “How dare you even email me? Everyone knows you're a liar. The world knows it.” I think this is before I started working on the script. Had he said nothing, I would've probably just been like, okay, he's a worm and he slithered away. But to write an email like that was so telling for the creature I was dealing with.
Do you know what happened to him?
A friend of a friend of a friend reached out a couple of years ago and they were like, “Did you know Dennis is getting married?” This is not someone I think about. Once you disappoint me, you're dead to me. And I had this thought: “Should I warn this woman?” I'm really into protecting women and being there and listening to women. But I didn't.
What held you back?
[Years before,] my best friend had called the mom to say, we just want to let you know, this is what your son is up to. The mother responded with, “Iliza is a failing actress, and she's addicted to drugs, and Dennis is sometimes too giving when it comes to women.” So, this is what he told his mother—or, she's in complete denial. Either way. It's so gross.
How did that factor into your thinking about whether to warn his new girlfriend?
I thought there's no point in warning her because he's either told her I'm crazy—in which case I will look crazy if I reach out to help her—or he's reconciled, come clean. And then I still look crazy, like I'm trying to ruin his life after he’s atoned. So I just let it lie. And I never did it.
Do you think there are a lot of people like him out there in the world?
I think it's a great question. Once I told this story, my inbox was inundated with people reaching out from all over—men and women. Apparently the cancer thing is a big heartstring tugger that a lot of people lie about. I think there's a lot more of this in our society than people realize, because you don't think about it until it happens to you.
Has this stuck with you? Do you find yourself doubting legit people because you had this experience, or do you think you've managed to maintain your faith that most people are going to be straightforward with you?
At the time, it rattled my cage, but for better, for worse, I remember thinking that he wins if I pay this pain forward, because this is a person who clearly felt they weren't enough.
How does it all feel now?
It didn't stick with me because he's not real. And the odds of that happening again were slim to none. The decision I made was, you'll get better first, and then it'll just be a crazy story. I guess the good thing is I replaced that pain, as comics do, with humor, and a script, and a movie. Now when I think of that time—this is the God's honest truth—there's no pain there. There's no anger. I don't get hot under the collar.I don't get anxious. I don't get those pangs. When I think of the story, I picture Ryan Hansen and Margaret Cho and Kimmy Gatewood, and the process to make this movie. I think of my story. Not his story.
This Q&A has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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